Re: Re: list wars --- a plea for flexibility

Julian,

OK, now knowing the intended (non-BIM) audience of that page, I feel
 with you;)
And I'm happy that the we share the view that a split should be avoided
 if possible.

I'm also glad that Daniel apologized, knowing him I knew that he
 couldn't possibly have intended to paint you as a Nazi.
But apart from that one sentence, I was pretty damn close to writing a
 very similar mail.
It's painful to see him and other nice people leave in anger, imho we
 should think about the reasons that alienated them and try to become
 more flexible and tolerant.
For the moment, I decided to be on both lists, still hoping that the
 split can be healed.

I hope you won't be too much disappointed that I want to continue
 attending together with Susanne if and when we both happen to have time.
Our outings together are few and far between, she enjoys BIM Stammtisch,
 and it's a rare chance to meet friends from outside Munich.
As you know, Hubert, Susanne and I share a common interest in eastern
 asian languages... which poses some interesting problems in the BSD
 context, too.

I still believe we should keep the Stammtisch informal and open, trying
 to control it too strictly would break it.
Humans are social and emotional beings, even more so if in a restaurant
 setting.

Trying too hard to abstract from that, treating people like objects and
 their feelings as flaws to be exploited or ridiculed is an uphill
 struggle and imho an important factor in the sorry state this country
 suffers from.
But I digress...

As to my contributions... well, I guess they put me in the "also useful"
 department, and I feel happy enough there;)
Since 2001, I'm a regular on a korean IRC channel about NetBSD, which
 has slowly but steadily grown over the last 3 years.
That's where I help a little bit with translations --- you have no idea
 how much grief funny idioms like "just to keep things interesting" can
 cause for people for whom English is as far away from their native
 language as Korean or Japanese is from ours.
With a lot of diligence from their side and the occasional hint from
 mine, now there is http://www.netbsd.org/ko/
Occasionally, I arranged contacts by inviting IRCnet #netbsd users to
 HanIRC #netbsd and vice versa,
And on that IRC channel, I also do user support, installation first help,
 troubleshooting, etc. Small and trivial stuff? Not for me.
Helping people do their first steps, removing the occasional stumbling
 block, and later seeing them running on their own is very satisfying.
Basically, I swap NetBSD and English knowledge against Korean knowledge.
And, like on IRCnet #netbsd, occasionally we talk about God, the Universe
 and Everything. Hey, BSD is cool, but we all have a life, too!

If all goes well, from next year on I will spend 18-24 months in Seoul.
I might even try to start a Stammtisch there;)

Cheers, Bernhard Riedel.

P.S.: Have an enjoyable trip!

--
구더기 무서워서 장 못 담근다.